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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 1:37 pm 
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MrMongoose wrote:
I think Munky King actually did a great job with this release. It wasn't 100% smooth - but there were no major server crashes (like everyone had with the Ringo release) just a few error messages. MORE importantly, anyone who didn't get one was informed at checkout (as far as I've heard, anyway). No one got an order confirmation followed by an email saying "Oops! You didn't get one after all!" which is WAY worse than getting denied at checkout.

The only way to prevent items in the cart from 'disappearing' during the order process is to automatically reserve one each time the 'Buy' button is clicked. That sounds great in theory, but it has its own drawbacks (such items getting put in carts and artificially selling out when the order is never completed, and items selling out faster than the page can refresh). In the end there are only x number of items for sale, and exactly x number of people will get them. Your percentage likelihood is the same regardless of the method of distribution. The only real difference is the psychology of it... it FEELS like the server errors caused your problem. But everyone got the same errors - so if they were fixed, it would just sell out more quickly. Nothing can change the ratio of people who want one vs. people who get one (except higher production numbers, of course!)

On the other hand, I do agree that eBay for huge releases makes things go more smoothly. There is a cost overhead on the eBay charges - but I think most people wouldn't mind paying a little more. Rotofugi did it for the Ringo release and it was the only one that I saw that went smoothly. Huck does it for all of his customs and, even though I've missed the last 4 or 5 ( :killme: ), those never have any problems.


+1

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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 1:43 pm 
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MrMongoose wrote:
I think Munky King actually did a great job with this release. It wasn't 100% smooth - but there were no major server crashes (like everyone had with the Ringo release) just a few error messages. MORE importantly, anyone who didn't get one was informed at checkout (as far as I've heard, anyway). No one got an order confirmation followed by an email saying "Oops! You didn't get one after all!" which is WAY worse than getting denied at checkout.

The only way to prevent items in the cart from 'disappearing' during the order process is to automatically reserve one each time the 'Buy' button is clicked. That sounds great in theory, but it has its own drawbacks (such items getting put in carts and artificially selling out when the order is never completed, and items selling out faster than the page can refresh). In the end there are only x number of items for sale, and exactly x number of people will get them. Your percentage likelihood is the same regardless of the method of distribution. The only real difference is the psychology of it... it FEELS like the server errors caused your problem. But everyone got the same errors - so if they were fixed, it would just sell out more quickly. Nothing can change the ratio of people who want one vs. people who get one (except higher production numbers, of course!)

On the other hand, I do agree that eBay for huge releases makes things go more smoothly. There is a cost overhead on the eBay charges - but I think most people wouldn't mind paying a little more. Rotofugi did it for the Ringo release and it was the only one that I saw that went smoothly. Huck does it for all of his customs and, even though I've missed the last 4 or 5 ( :killme: ), those never have any problems.


I actually got an oversold when roto dropped the ringo. Made payment went through and then got hit with the we over sold message.
So even ebay isnt perfect.

Then again the reason is because they required instant payment.


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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 1:56 pm 
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machalatto wrote:
I actually got an oversold when roto dropped the ringo. Made payment went through and then got hit with the we over sold message.
So even ebay isnt perfect.

Then again the reason is because they required instant payment.


I agree that eBay is certainly not perfect! But they do have the servers required to handle this sort of volume.

As you noted, the Rotofugi problem was due to the instant payment setting. eBay doesn't subtract one from the available list until it is paid for in that case - so some people were in the middle of the paypal transfer when it sold out. Not something I blame Roto for, of course - I'd never have thought of that issue either.

The biggest problem I've personally had with eBay is that scheduled items appear in different places at slightly different times. I don't recall the specifics, but I think items show up in a search before they show up on a stores main page (or something to that effect). I know I've been refreshing like crazy waiting for a Huck custom, only to see it pop up as already 'Sold out' a few minutes later.

So yes, eBay has its own quirks. I'm not aware of any other service that will 'rent' professional servers for one-shot sales, though. And, as pointed out earlier in the thread, it isn't fair for us to expect a small shop to spends tens of thousands of dollars on equipment they need for a total of an hour or so each year.

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 Post subject: Fair enough!
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 2:02 pm 
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Fair Enough! I am glad the thread sparked conversation.

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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:37 pm 
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MunkyKing’s website does not suck.

As has already been said, there were a certain amount of items and those items sold quickly. Regardless of where you (and I) received our ‘denied’ notice at least we were not left hanging on or totally confused as to whether cards had been charged, whether the server had gone down and how long it would be before it’s back up etc etc.

If people didn’t have multiple windows open and didn’t refresh over and over again then maybe the process would feel smoother, but how can that be controlled without a lottery or queuing process. And if they offered them as a lottery people would biznatch and moan about the entry criteria and selection process.

In the end too many people wanting too few units means that some people are not going to get them.

I’m happy that they offered them online for those of us who are not going to be able to make it down to Cali, so at least we are in with some sort of chance…


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 12:59 am 
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theboywil wrote:
MunkyKing’s website does not suck.

As has already been said, there were a certain amount of items and those items sold quickly. Regardless of where you (and I) received our ‘denied’ notice at least we were not left hanging on or totally confused as to whether cards had been charged, whether the server had gone down and how long it would be before it’s back up etc etc.

If people didn’t have multiple windows open and didn’t refresh over and over again then maybe the process would feel smoother, but how can that be controlled without a lottery or queuing process. And if they offered them as a lottery people would biznatch and moan about the entry criteria and selection process.

In the end too many people wanting too few units means that some people are not going to get them.

I’m happy that they offered them online for those of us who are not going to be able to make it down to Cali, so at least we are in with some sort of chance…


Great opinion...doesn't mean you are right.

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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 1:00 am 
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#-o [-(

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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 1:02 am 
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i'm glad they even gave me a chance online yesterday, they could have made it an instore only release.

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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 1:09 am 
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elf2elf wrote:
i'm glad they even gave me a chance online yesterday, they could have made it an instore only release.


Might as well have. I wouldn't have wasted time preparing for a Server nightmare.

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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 1:11 am 
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elf2elf wrote:
i'm glad they even gave me a chance online yesterday, they could have made it an instore only release.



+100000000000000000

MK came correct

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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 1:19 am 
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don't be bitter because you didn't get one... alot of people who weren't in l.a or from cali were trying to get ahold of the limited release on time... honestly can you tell me one urban vinyl toy store's website that actually can handle a big release?

kidrobots site crashes also when dunnies come out... but to those lucky ones who can get through... they get it... there's only 200... not everyone was going to get one... so i understand the bitterness... but don't take it out on MK... they did offer some online, when they could of had it a in store only release.

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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 1:38 am 
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elf2elf wrote:
i'm glad they even gave me a chance online yesterday, they could have made it an instore only release.

+200

its better then only having to resort to flipper prices on the bay as peoples only chance to get one.

There is always going to be hiccups in releases...i didnt get a ringo but I managed a pyro you win some you lose some and you deal with it.

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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 2:23 am 
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i cant beleive som of you want more stores to open up ebay shops for large releases, who should swallow the extra charges?? should mr big bollox company take over all small vinyl releases? i mean fcuk it lets have walmart take it all, there servers are surely strong in the force? its us small companys that have helped this niche market thrive over the years and we are constantly taking it in the rear from the larger companys muscling in. I will holt the rant there, theres alot more but hey its friday right? :)

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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 3:04 am 
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TokyoToyStore wrote:
i cant beleive som of you want more stores to open up ebay shops for large releases, who should swallow the extra charges?? should mr big bollox company take over all small vinyl releases? i mean fcuk it lets have walmart take it all, there servers are surely strong in the force? its us small companys that have helped this niche market thrive over the years and we are constantly taking it in the rear from the larger companys muscling in. I will holt the rant there, theres alot more but hey its friday right? :)


Actually, any time I've personally made the suggestion, I've said the buyers would probably pay the fees (others may disagree) - and I think most would. It is certainly better than paying flipper prices and, in my opinion, it is worth a few extra bucks not to deal with server crashes and super-slow load times.

Anyone I've seen suggest this has also been clear about the notion that it would be for major releases only. This is a few-times-a-year sort of thing and would be meant as a cost effective solution to make things easier on both the small shops and the consumers. I hardly see how that is equivalent to having Walmart take over the vinyl scene.

To a small shop I would think eBay would be a great solution. No need for expensive equipment you don't really need, no concerns that your website will choke and take your entire business down with it, and no angry customers who feel cheated. To the consumer it is really more a matter of convenience. Obviously a faster, more smooth transaction doesn't change the percentage of people who get the toy - but not having oversold items, not having server errors, not having 1 minute load times, certainly does make the experience less frustrating.

Personally, I'm ok with how it is currently done, but I do think eBay would be better. If you have an alternative solution that has been overlooked then you should certainly suggest it. I don't think anyone here is really pro-ebay, but I don't see anything to be gained in ignoring what could be the best solution for everyone involved just because you don't like eBay.

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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 4:14 am 
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"to a small shop ebay is a great solution" obviously you dont know wtf your talking about.............

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That's a totally reasonable and geek worthy suggestion MrMongoose.

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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 4:57 am 
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zonnie5 wrote:
elf2elf wrote:
i'm glad they even gave me a chance online yesterday, they could have made it an instore only release.

+200

its better then only having to resort to flipper prices on the bay as peoples only chance to get one.

There is always going to be hiccups in releases...i didnt get a ringo but I managed a pyro you win some you lose some and you deal with it.


just like the baroness .. lol :P if they released like 10 online it woulda been fun to grab

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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 5:04 am 
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TokyoToyStore wrote:
"to a small shop ebay is a great solution" obviously you dont know wtf your talking about.............


+1

if I had a store ebay would be AVOIDED like the plague. You can take your $30 in fees PLUS more fees for paypal and shove that up your rump.

Most places already pay for taking credit cards anyway why add more fees?

If Smash was $120.00 on MK.com then it would need to be like $150-160 on ebay to cover all the fees.

People were already bitching over it being $120.00

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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 5:11 am 
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iliksprite wrote:
i think the main reason that small stores like munky king don't "prepare" for these releases is that it is a money issue. In most cases a majority of the sales comes from in store purchase, and for them it doesnt make sense to pay more money for a server that they will only need for 5 minutes once every 3 months or so.

I think that for some people you should just feel lucky to have a chance to buy one online at retail.

I am no where near LA and the fact that I had a chance to get one is better then no chance at all. They offered the smashes online to give the oppurtunity to those that cant spend 300+ on a plane ticket just to be there in person.

Yeah it sucks not getting one but if they didnt even have a website what would you be saying then?


+1 well said.

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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 5:33 am 
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TokyoToyStore wrote:
"to a small shop ebay is a great solution" obviously you dont know wtf your talking about.............


Perhaps not - but if you have an argument as to why ebay wouldn't be a good solution for a small store selling a high demand item online, then I haven't seen it.

As far as I can tell (and I may have overlooked something) the only argument against using ebay would be the hefty fees they charge. So the question seems to me to boil down to this: Would customers rather pay an extra 10% and get major releases done on ebay, or would they rather save that 10% and go through a server that isn't powerful enough to handle the short term stress. I think that is a fair debate, and I honestly don't think there is a 'right' answer. My vote would be for the first option - but maybe I would be in the minority. The only reason ebay was even brought up (and not by me, btw) was as a solution to the specific problems Munky King had (for the record, I don't personally think MKs problems were bad at all). I don't think you can really argue that eBay wouldn't solve those specific problems. It is, however, fair to argue that it might cause new and, depending on your personal opinion, potentially worse problems (such as higher costs).

Either way - the point was to make suggestions and try to find a better way to do these things. I'm happy with how they are done now, but see room for improvement. Still, if a store doesn't want to use ebay, they certainly don't have to - it isn't going to affect my view of them. I just think that some customers might prefer it. I know Rotofugi got a lot of praise for doing the Ringo release that way.

I don't know what the customers prefer in general - but maybe business decisions should be made based on their customers preferences and not how much/little an owner likes ebay?

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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 5:46 am 
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Wait...We're still talking about this?

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ontheDL wrote:
Wait...We're still talking about this?


I dunno . . . all I can hear is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

It's sold out! Cowboy up, accept it, move on, pay out your a*s or forget about it!


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 7:25 am 
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Again, like many releases...

1. Some people will cry about the server/site because they couldnt one...
2. Feel entitled and act like babies because they couldnt get one...
3. Hate on the 'flippers' who are selling them on ebay...
4. Hate on some on the line that had others with them...

Wa-wa-wa...


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 12:56 pm 
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First post!

Alright, I'm admittedly a bit new to the collecting game (in this field at least), but not at all to the web game.

Dynamic server and db scaling solutions are available and cheap. They need not be permanent, but focused specifically at times when increased traffic is anticipated.

It really boils down to the competence of those creating / running the site. There is officially no reason to have a site that doesn't scale to meet traffic demands, contrary to what most here say.


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 1:41 pm 
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johnideal wrote:
First post!

Alright, I'm admittedly a bit new to the collecting game (in this field at least), but not at all to the web game.

Dynamic server and db scaling solutions are available and cheap. They need not be permanent, but focused specifically at times when increased traffic is anticipated.

It really boils down to the competence of those creating / running the site. There is officially no reason to have a site that doesn't scale to meet traffic demands, contrary to what most here say.


huh? lolz so are u saying that munkyking and all those online stores are at fault for not trying to upgrade or gain a better server/ db?

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